072 - Giorgiko

Episode 072 - Giorgiko

Artist

On this episode of Art Affairs, i talk with artist duo Giorgiko.

We discuss how Darren and Trisha transitioned from working independently to creating art together, the rich world of childlike characters they've been building over the years, their new solo show curated by Thinkspace at Woaw Gallery in Hong Kong, and whole lot more!

Website: giorgiko.com
Instagram: @giorgiko.la

Also mentioned in this episode: Giant Robot, Eric Nakamura, Ojiri Gallery, and Andrew Hem.

Also Available Here

  • michael (00:00:01):

    You're listening to Art Affairs episode 72. Today I'll be talking to Darren and Trisha of Giorgiko.

    michael (00:00:35):

    All right, so my name is michael faith, and this is Art Affairs. Art Affairs is my attempt at shining a spotlight on the many wonderful people that make up this amazing art community, featuring conversations with artists, gallerist curators telling their stories. You can dig through previous episodes complete with show notes at artaffairspodcast.com. But the best way to stay plugged in is to subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. And if you're really enjoying the show and wanna help support what I'm doing here in an even bigger way, check out the Air Affairs Patreon. Not only does it give you an opportunity to help keep the show going, but there are several community-oriented benefits as well, like getting early access to episodes and suggesting questions for upcoming guests. You can find all the information about that at patreon.com/artaffairs. You can also connect with a show on Instagram at @artaffairspodcast. All right, so today's guest is artist duo Giorgiko. Darren and Trisha Inouye are the people behind the wonderful work of Giorgiko. But they aren't just partners in making art, they're also married and are raising twin boys together. We talk about this personal professional dynamic on the show, as well as the wonderfully rich contrast that runs through all aspects of what they make, their new solo show opening in Hong Kong, and a whole lot more. So, I hope you enjoy my conversation with Trisha and Darren of Giorgiko.

    michael (00:02:10):

    Trisha, Darren, welcome to the show. It's so good to have you guys on. I really appreciate it.

    Darren (00:02:14):

    Thanks for having us.

    Trisha (00:02:15):

    Thank you so much for having us.

    michael (00:02:17):

    All right, so this is actually just for the listeners... this is actually the first time that I've had more than one person as a guest on the show. So I'm really grateful that you guys are willing to put up with my <laugh> my logistical challenges of just figuring this all out. I'm, I'm, I'm, I just, it's a learning experience for me, but, um, I'm here for it. I really love your work, so I'm, I'm glad y'all would, were willing to do it. Yeah. Alright. So starting with your background, I, I know Trisha, you were born, um, in the San Francisco area, in the Bay Area. Um, were, were you in the, the city proper or was it one of the surrounding like, um, you know, mini suburbs around San Francisco?

    Trisha (00:02:50):

    So, I was born in San Jose, but I lived my early years in San Francisco proper. Uh, so I stayed there up until third grade before I moved back to San Jose. And so after that, I lived in the San Jose, Cupertino, Campbell area up until high school.

    michael (00:03:07):

    Okay. And, and I, and from what I read, your, your parents were originally from Korea. Um, so did you have like, family that still lived in Korea while you were growing up, but did you get much exposure to like your Korean heritage?

    Trisha (00:03:18):

    Most of my dad's family, uh, all lived in California. Um, and most of my mom's family, they're, they are still in Korea and so actually I think a good number of them I still haven't met yet. Um, cuz I've only been to Korea I think twice, and they were both when I was younger. Um, so even if I did meet them, I don't have very much recollection of that. Um, but my dad came here when he was 12, so he's pretty Americanized whereas my mom came here, I believe in her early twenties, so she's definitely more Korean. And my grandfather, who was first generation, he lived with us, um, for a good amount of time too. So yes, I did get a lot of exposure to, um, my Korean heritage and of course lots of mom's Korean cooking,

    michael (00:04:13):

    <laugh> for sure

    Trisha (00:04:14):

    You know, one of the more important things, you know, it's a really good way to connect to my culture.

    michael (00:04:20):

    No, no doubt. Do, do you cook Korean food yourself? Like do you feel pretty confident in your Korean cooking skills?

    Trisha (00:04:26):

    Nope. <laugh>

    michael (00:04:28):

    <laugh>

    Trisha (00:04:29):

    I try once in a while, but that is one of my big regrets, uh, since leaving home, leaving my parents, is that I wish that I paid attention when my mom was trying to teach me Korean cooking. But she's one of those like, um, like sensory, just like eyeball it, like use this much like a fingertips worth of salt <laugh>, which means nothing to me. I cannot quantify that. So it always just went over my head.

    michael (00:04:57):

    Yeah, yeah, no doubt. And, and Darren, you grew up in, in LA so, so definitely both Californians, um, and are fourth generation Japanese American, so definitely a bit more removed from, you know, possibly your Japanese heritage. Do you, do you feel that that was the case or do you still have, did you still have a pretty strong connection to your Japanese background?

    Darren (00:05:16):

    Uh, yeah. No, we were, we were far removed, um, on both sides of my family. Uh, I think our, I feel like my, my and my brother and sisters, uh, connection to our culture felt like, uh, like it was very foreign and it was mysterious. So it was almost like, uh, um, we were kind of, uh, intrigued by, you know, MBK and all these different ninjas and like the same type of stuff that any other American would probably be, uh, like, uh, interested in if they thought about Japan. Right. Um, I was afraid of sushi as a kid growing up, you know, oh, <laugh>, stuff like that. So I didn't really fully understand, I guess my Japanese heritage till I got older, like in high school, started asking my grandparents, you know, cause they were here like, uh, during, uh, the war and stuff, so internment camp and all that stuff. So that experience, you know, uh, it was pretty unique, uh, to, I guess, uh, the Japanese American experience. So, um, definitely appreciated my culture a lot more, uh, as I got older. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>,

    michael (00:06:22):

    Did y'all have, uh, much exposure to the arts growing up? Just, is that something that you had around you?

    Darren (00:06:28):

    Um, I, I think that I, it was my, my journey in, in discovering the arts was, uh, really out of, uh, I felt like necessity. I was bored in class <laugh> and, uh, didn't really, uh, enjoy, uh, school. So I used it as an escape and that was kind of my foray into it. Um, I grew up in Orange County, so there wasn't a lot of art to be seen around me. Um, so yeah, that was kind of, I guess my initial exposure.

    michael (00:06:56):

    What about you Trisha?

    Trisha (00:06:58):

    Yeah, I think when, when you ask like if we had exposure to the arts, that makes me think of like the fine arts or like museums, that kind of stuff. And I would say no, I didn't have that sort of exposure, not really. Um, but for me, art was always, um, yeah, an outlet and expression, just something that I like to do for fun. And it was definitely, um, something I was good at honestly as a kid. And so I just enjoyed the process. Um, my mom put me in a lot of different, like, art classes, um, art studios to learn, but I was constantly in and out of those two. And I think it's because I didn't really enjoy my experience in those environments. Um, and part of that is, uh, I don't know, like I think the teachers tended to touch our artwork quite a lot, and that made me really unhappy.

    Trisha (00:07:55):

    I felt like this is my artwork and their, not, not that I didn't wanna learn from them, but it felt like more than learning, it felt like they were changing things that I wanted to do. And so that was frustrating to me. So that was more so my experience is when I was in those classroom settings, I didn't enjoy it, but when I was at home, I was constantly drawing. I was always saving like scrap paper so that I could draw on the back. Nice. Or like my old homework, I would draw on the back. So I had like a whole file full of just like seemingly trash, but when you turned it over it's like, oh, there's like a nice drawing on the back

    michael (00:08:32):

    <laugh>. And is that something that your, your parents were supportive in? You mean, it sounds like your mom was, was, uh, putting you in these art classes, so it's something they were encouraging in you?

    Trisha (00:08:41):

    Yes, definitely. Um, so the big like kind of turning point for me as a young artist was in the second grade I had a, my elementary school teacher, like saw like a newspaper clipping in the San Francisco Chronicle calling for like young artists to participate in an art contest. And at the time I was constantly doing art, but my parents like didn't necessarily see it as something unusual or something special. They're just like, oh, she just draws any kid draws. Um, but Mrs. Chin sent me home with the newspaper clipping. Um, my parents were intrigued. They let me enter into the contest, I won the contest. Nice. Um, my artwork was in the newspaper and um, my parents were like, okay, this is your destiny <laugh>. Um, they were never forceful, but I think when they saw like, oh, you know, this is something to consider, there is potential here. Like let's, um, let's encourage that. Let's push her, um, if this is what she wants. So it's not that I always knew or even necessarily wanted to be an artist, but they saw like, well, if you have a gift and if you are interested in growing it, let's do it. So yes, I would say they were very supportive all the way up until like high school, college, like all the way till now. Always very, very supportive parents, which I'm very grateful for.

    michael (00:10:10):

    Yeah. That's awesome. That's so important. Darren, did you have the same kind of support from your parents as far as, you know, encouraging you to express your creativity?

    Darren (00:10:17):

    Yeah, um, a hundred percent. Uh, I think, um, I didn't necessarily, uh, like strive after becoming an, uh, being an artist or anything like that. Again, it, art was so much of an escape for me, uh, from, from school and stuff and homework and all those things I should have been doing. Uh, but um, my parents and uh, I think my teachers and stuff and my friends, you know, at school, they would see it. And I think I just, uh, inherited the label of like, oh, the artist kid, you know? And, uh, because of that I was just like, okay, like I accepted that and kind of moved forward with it. And, um, yeah, my parents were very supportive. I think the first art class I had, uh, kind of similar to Trisha was, uh, it was a Michael's, uh, watercolor class. Mm-hmm. So, uh, just at the local Michael's store and, uh, I did a watercolor painting, cemented it to uh, it's like an Orange County fair art competition, which was kind of like a um, kind of like a city thing. And um, I was completely surprised cause I ended up winning the best of show there. And I was, uh, wow. I think I was in sixth grade and that was across the age groups. So that was like, I think that was one of the first major awards I ever received that wasn't like a participation trophy <laugh> or, you know, a good sportsmanship trophy. So, um, that did make an impact on me. I was like, oh, like, you know this, maybe this is something I am good at, you know? And uh,

    michael (00:11:41):

    Yeah, I mean y'all are both like racking up the awards as kids <laugh> <laugh>,

    Trisha (00:11:46):

    Just the one, just the one time.

    Darren (00:11:48):

    Me too. That was just the one. That's kinda funny. It was the one, but it was, but it's very, uh, important I guess.

    michael (00:11:54):

    Yeah. Well, and Darren, you also got really into street art from what I understand. Um, was that more or less just appreciating the art that was around you in LA or did you actually get up to a bit of graffiti yourself?

    Darren (00:12:06):

    Yeah, so, um, well I lived in Orange County, like kind of on the border, um, but it was definitely in the suburbs. Um, so I got introduced to graffiti through, uh, my afterschool art program. Like some of the teachers there, uh, yeah, they were writers and they, they, you know, would show us their black books and stuff and just always tagging on the tables. And I was just intrigued cuz uh, again, growing up in Orange County, I didn't see a whole lot of that. Um, my family would take trips to LA pretty often actually. Um, but it wasn't, uh, I guess I didn't really notice the graffiti until, you know, there was a lot of gang tagging and stuff. But when I saw like, whoa, like this writing styles, you know, uh, wild styles and all their different throw up and bombs, I was just super intrigued by it.

    Darren (00:12:53):

    So, uh, I think that's the first time I really kind of fell in love with an art form. Um, prior to that, being in Orange County, I was doing, you know, landscapes and barn houses, <laugh>, you know, just stuff like that. And I, I was like, okay, I could do this. People seemed to be impressed by it, but when I saw graffiti, I just was up blown away. And at the same time, me and some of my friends were getting into dancing as well. And, uh, so it all kind of just went together, you know, a whole kind of underground hip hop scene. And, uh, yeah, I, I gained a huge appreciation for it there.

    michael (00:13:24):

    Did you have like a tag name or run with any kind of crews or anything?

    Darren (00:13:28):

    Uh, no crews, uh, just like, uh, like two friends maybe. Uh, from the afterschool art program, uh, I did have a name. Uh, we did do a few, uh, like throwy and uh, stencils and stuff like that. Um, you know, I, I feel like there were a few close calls, you know, getting caught in stuff. Uh, but the whole time, like, you know, it's funny, I talked to my parents later on, uh, cuz they were buying me the spray paint cans, <laugh>

    Darren (00:13:56):

    I was like, did you have any idea that I was like doing stuff like this? And they're like, we had some idea cuz you kept on asking us to buy spray paint cans for school projects, <laugh>, you know, none of those school projects would manifest into anything.

    michael (00:14:07):

    Right. <laugh>.

    Darren (00:14:08):

    So, uh, yeah, it, it was, uh, yeah, maybe for like a year or two. And then once I got accepted to Art Center, I think I, I just, the fear of getting arrested, you know, kind of grew and I was like, ah, I don't know if I could be doing this.

    michael (00:14:22):

    Yeah. Yeah. And, and you mentioned dancing, so like you were doing like dance battles and stuff, weren't you?

    Darren (00:14:28):

    Shh. <laugh>

    Trisha (00:14:29):

    <laugh>

    Darren (00:14:31):

    Yeah, Trisha. Um, being, being, you know, my wife, she has the special privilege of discovering these old videos on the computer. Uh,

    michael (00:14:40):

    So you have like old videos of, of you doing dance battles?

    Darren (00:14:43):

    Unfortunately, yes.

    michael (00:14:44):

    Wow. Amazing.

    Trisha (00:14:45):

    <laugh> fortunately for me,

    Trisha (00:14:46):

    Fortunately for me, for me unfortunately for Darren, and those are always very special days, <laugh>, when I'm just digging through the files and I find something really embarrassing and I just eat it up. I just love it. <laugh>.

    michael (00:15:00):

    That's amazing. Do you still, are you, do you still dance? Do you still feel like you're good?

    Darren (00:15:04):

    Uh, no I, I I think like, uh, cuz when we, when I got into it with my friends, this was like pre YouTube or at the very beginning stages of YouTube. So I think the, uh, maybe at the time we were good cuz if, if you were to do, you know, whatever we were doing, like popping and stuff, it was less known. So people are like, whoa, kind of just surprised. So in a sense, people would kind of be impressed by anything <laugh>, but now everybody's watching all these dance TV shows, everybody has all these YouTube videos, so I feel like the level of dance competency and ability has just gone through the roof amongst people. So yeah, if somebody, if there's a dance battle going on, I would probably just watch <laugh> watch that. Yeah.

    michael (00:15:45):

    <laugh> Appreciate it.

    Darren (00:15:47):

    Appreciate it, yeah.

    michael (00:15:47):

    And so you mentioned Art Center and you know, you, you were definitely a lot closer to, uh, Art Center there in Pasadena, Trisha, you were a bit further removed from it, living up further north. What, what led to y'all's decision to, to go to Art Center?

    Trisha (00:16:01):

    I think for me, yeah, I think for me, um, I just was a very optimistic kid, <laugh>. And so, uh, when the kids around me, like, you know, at the portfolio classes, at the art classes, I mentioned before, you know, when I heard about the kind of schools that they were getting into, like, you know, some were applying for Micah, some for rsd, some from, for Parsons, you know, all these different schools. I just ask like, well, which one's the best one? <laugh> and I, and from what I could tell, like Art Center was really up there, so I only applied to two schools. I applied to Rezi and Art Center and I was just, as I mentioned, just very optimistic. Um, I wouldn't say like prideful or, you know, just thinking like, oh, I'm better than everyone else. I literally was like, well, if it's the best, I wanna go <laugh> <laugh>. And so I just applied and I got in to RISD first, or I received the acceptance letter first and I was like, um, actually I don't really wanna go to Rhode Island. I think LA sounds a lot more interesting. So as soon as the acceptance letter for Art Center came in, I was like, all right, I guess I'm going. And I had no idea what I was getting myself into <laugh>.

    michael (00:17:15):

    Yeah, I mean that's like a, that was a hugely life-changing moment, not just in, I mean, for most people the choice of a RISD or art center, it's like, okay, well they're different forms, different flavors of an art education, but they're still an art education and that's the biggest difference to that person. But for you guys, that's where y'all met and that was like a complete life change for both y'all. Um, so tell me about that. How did you guys first meet? Was it, I think y'all met him at orientation, something like that, just first day, right outta the gate?

    Darren (00:17:43):

    Yeah, first day right out of the gate.

    Trisha (00:17:46):

    So I was in the same like kind of tour group as one of Darren's high school friends. And so, you know, we're just chatting it up and then afterwards we all migrated towards like the photo ID station. And so the friend pointed out Darren in line, he said, Hey, let's go stand with Darren. He's my friend. And I saw Darren and I was like, yes, please introduce you to him. <laugh> <laugh>. So we just met up in line and um, yes, I was, I was very interested. I thought he was super cute, uh, had no idea he was even Japanese or anything. I just thought like, yeah, I wanna stand next to this cute boy. And then a week later in, um, in our first, what is it, design one class? Uh, I walked into class, I think I walked into class and saw you, right?

    Darren (00:18:38):

    I don't remember.

    Trisha (00:18:38):

    Or did you see me?

    Darren (00:18:39):

    I'm not sure.

    Trisha (00:18:40):

    Okay. Yeah, I'm pretty, I'm pretty sure I saw Darren cuz he is an, he's always early to things and I'm always late, so I assume he was there first <laugh>, I saw him sitting at the back of the classroom and of course I was super intimidated my first week of school and I thought, yes, I know that guy. It's the cute guy, I'm gonna sit next to him <laugh>. So I sat next to him and we exchanged numbers in class, like to be able to, uh, you know, help each other out with homework, stuff like that, which was the teacher's idea. It was not a move on my end <laugh>. Uh, but thanks to the teacher and thanks to Design one, we are now married <laugh>.

    michael (00:19:17):

    Yeah. Amazing. That's, that's such an incredible story. Um, and, and I know that y'all both were focused on, on illustration, um, was, was that y'all's original goal independently or did y'all, as you started to get to know each other, decide, hey, well I'm in illustration, you want to go into illustration too? and it was kind of a joint decision? Or how did that play out?

    Darren (00:19:35):

    Well, we were, uh, we were friends, close friends for like three years, uh, at Art Center. Um, at various points. Like I felt like, well, Trisha actually went into the entertainment track for a season as well and took a break from school. So illustration design, at least for me, was, it felt like the broadest, uh, education I could get at art center. Um, you know, you dab one, uh, uh, uh, digital elements, you dabble with, uh, traditional elements and, uh, mediums. So I didn't really know what I wanted to do after school, so I thought that was gonna give me the, the widest birth of options, you know. Um, and then for Trisha too, I think when she came back she kind of chose, uh, illustration design as well because of that same reason. Um, so it was kind of, uh, maybe our lack of knowing what to do after school,

    michael (00:20:27):

    <laugh>

    Darren (00:20:27):

    That drove us into that department. Yeah.

    michael (00:20:30):

    Well, and Trisha, didn't you get really into like, doing children's books? I know that you had like an illustration class where you did a children's book. Uh, was that something that you had considered as a possible career path?

    Trisha (00:20:41):

    Yeah, so, um, exactly like what Darren was saying, even coming into Art Center, I really wasn't sure, cuz I just had so many different interests and like the future seemed so wide open with possibility. Um, so going into school I did wonder like, do I wanna do animation? Do I wanna do children's books? Do I wanna, you know, make toys? I have no idea cuz everything just seemed so fun. Um, but as Darren mentioned, I felt like illustration design did give me the most options. Um, and children's book, it, it is something that's still like, is kind of not off the table in terms of my interests or, you know, if opportunities came up, wow, that'd be amazing. But it's not something we're actively searching for right now. Um, but yeah, that's actually kind of the birth story of, uh, the Giorgiko universe. What it, it comes from this children's book, um, that I wrote and illustrated, uh, in my, in this one children's book illustration class at Art Center. I think it was 2012. Um, but yeah, I just created this book that was, um, I would say it was definitely based on myself and the main character who we now know as wonder, our main character of Giorgiko. Um, she's like a representation of me in my childhood self. Mm-hmm. And so I created this character, I created this book, um, and it was for the class, but yeah, at the time I had no idea that it was going to turn something more. Um, but yeah, that's the origin story.

    michael (00:22:24):

    No, that's amazing. And, and so like, just reflecting back on, on your time in school, I mean obviously it was, uh, an important moment just from you, you know, a personal level, but as far as like the school school part of it, do you feel that that education helped you grow in the ways that you needed creatively?

    Trisha (00:22:42):

    Yeah, totally. Um, I learned so much in school, but I think where it really, uh, really taught me was like in humility, <laugh>, <laugh>, you know, in, um, cuz I, I would say a lot of people who make it through that process, they come out on the other end, like sharp and professional, ready to work, ready to dominate. And I was not that by the time I I came out, I feel like I was crawling, like that was so hard. I feel so beat up and, you know, I still haven't fully discovered my path or who I am or anything like that. Um, and it's not that I don't think that that means that school didn't do anything for me or that it was a waste or any of those potentially negative thoughts that could come from, you know, that kind of brokenness. But instead I kind of feel like, wow, I learned so much in just humility and in learning how to learn and how to mistakes.

    Trisha (00:23:47):

    And those are still things that I'm learning now, but that was like a condensed, concentrated dosage of, uh, those kind of difficult life experiences or like, you know, um, life lessons. Uh, so yeah, it definitely shaped me or like began jumpstarted the shaping of me, I feel like. Um, but of course on top of that, the education is amazing. It's top-notch. Um, if we had time and if we lived closer and if finances allowed, I would love to go back for like art center at night classes. Um, you know, we dare and I would love to learn more graphic design because that's always gonna be super useful. And sure, I wish I took a specifically a graphic design class during my time there. Um, so yeah, we would love to just continue learning, but I think one of the biggest things is like learning how to learn or learning how to receive criticism or critique, you know, those kinds of things.

    michael (00:24:48):

    Yeah, no, that's a great point. And and so like, after y'all graduated in 20 12, 20 13, um, you ultimately stayed in the LA area, um, you know, for you Trisha, what, what led to that decision to stay in LA versus moving back north? Was it because y'all had started become serious and you wanted to kinda make a home in la or was there something more related to the career opportunities that LA presented? What led to that decision to stay in la?

    Trisha (00:25:14):

    I, I think it was a combination of both, um, at the time, right after graduation. So the post-grad year was really tough, um, just in, you know, trying to figure out that career path and also for us too, figuring out our relationship. Um, so we got engaged at the, like, I think it was a full year after I graduated, right? <laugh>,

    Darren (00:25:40):

    <laugh>, I think so. A year or two years. Yeah.

    Trisha (00:25:42):

    So, yeah, yeah. So in, so in in between graduation and getting engaged, you know, things are still up in the air. You never really know it's gonna happen, but it did make sense to stay there and try to make a, try to figure out my career. Um, not to say that there's no art opportunities in San Jose and the Bay Area, but I think the scene is just different. And in my parents' area it's very like tech-heavy. And so I felt like, well, if I stay here, figure things out. That just kind of career-wise, it makes more sense.

    michael (00:26:16):

    And, and, and Darren, didn't y'all at some point live in your grandmother's old house? I think I read that it's a random trivia item, but I, I don't know. Is that still a case? Or

    Darren (00:26:24):

    Y'all we're still there? We're still, we're still here, we're still <laugh> <laugh>.

    michael (00:26:27):

    I mean, what is that like, just living in a place that was such familiar to you as a kid and then living in it in a later, you know, adult context. What was that experience like?

    Darren (00:26:36):

    I mean, now I think for the amount of years that we've been here, it, it definitely, that has defined the experience, uh, now. So now it feels like our house, um, when I first moved in, cuz my initial feelings as a kid coming to this, all the house all the time was that it was scary. It was old. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it was dark, it was on this hill. Uh, you know, it just felt like haunted <laugh>. So I remember even in high school moving in, I still had that, um, like, uh, memory of that. So moving in, it was like, oh, this is kind of a creepy house. You know, like, I don't know how comfortable I feel here. But yeah, we love it. We're, we're super thankful, um, to be able to be here. And, uh, we share the house with my brother and his wife and, and their kids. So during Covid, like, um, it was just great that our kids had kids to play with and, uh, we were kind of isolated altogether, which was a huge gift, like a huge, huge blessing.

    michael (00:27:31):

    And it's really cool just to be able to recontextualize that structure, make it mean something different to you. Um, and so Trisha mentioned the, the period right after graduation being a little bit difficult. Um, what did y'all do for work right after you graduated? Was it, you know, freelance, like commercial illustration? What type of work did you pick up?

    Darren (00:27:51):

    Uh, we were kind of both bouncing around. Trisha had a few more stable jobs than I did. Um, I was doing some freelance stuff, uh, here and there. Uh, nothing big, just kind of like small things. And then, um, we also both were working at a afterschool art program as teachers, uh, and that I think for both of us was a little bit more of our regular scheduled thing. It it provided us more of a, a stable, a stable ish income, you know, uh, survivable for a single person. And, uh, yeah, I think, uh, we were really searching for a long time and, and even during that season we were starting to dabble with collaborating together. Um, but it was really just experiments and kind of, you know, just for fun. I don't think we really, you know, it, uh, it was like a dream, like, oh, that'd be so cool if we were able to like, work together, but it didn't seem like a real thing, you know? Yeah. Until it was, I guess. Yeah.

    michael (00:28:47):

    Didn't, at one point you both work as assistant directors at a, a gallery. I mean, so were you already starting to think about gallery art as a possible profession, as a potential avenue for you to go down?

    Darren (00:29:00):

    I think maybe me more than Trisha, um, just because coming outta art center, uh, a lot of my focus was on painting. I just, uh, kind of stayed in that painting arena, I guess. And, uh, traditional painting, you know, it's harder to find places for that, I guess in the commercial world. So the gallery scene kind of felt more like a, a path, but it, it still was so fuzzy. Like I had no idea what that world looked like. I had no idea how to get into it. We were assistant directors for a small gallery for a season, and, uh, we had no clue what we were doing. Uh, we gained a huge appreciation for what galleries do though. Cause I mean, like, we were the janitors, we were the installers, we were the admin, we were everything. And, uh, so it was kind of cool that we got to go on that journey together and just be like, wow, this is, this is a ton of work. And, uh, yeah, I mean, uh, all the artists we worked with at that time were super gracious, which we're super thankful for because we didn't know what we were doing. And like, uh, yeah. Yeah. So that was a short stint. I think that was like maybe a year and a half that we were doing that.

    michael (00:30:07):

    By the, by the end of your time there, did you feel more confident in your knowledge about the gallery scene?

    Darren (00:30:13):

    No. <laugh> <laugh>, I, I think what we both, well, we left like, okay, well we never wanna run a gallery. That was kind of a, okay,

    michael (00:30:21):

    Probably one.

    Darren (00:30:21):

    That was number one. Um, number two, I think because we didn't know what we were doing and we weren't connected in any, we, we didn't, um, we didn't understand that there's like kind of networks, you know, within the gallery scene and there's a whole, a whole collector realm and stuff. I think at that time we were like, oh yeah, people just walk off the street and buy art, you know, but that doesn't happen really <laugh>, you know? So, uh, yeah. So we left, I think still with that huge mystery of like, we don't know what this world looks like, you know, until the door was open to us and we came in as artists, you know, more

    michael (00:30:54):

    So between the, the point where you were, um, uncertain about what the gallery scene even was, um, and the time that you became an artist, did you start getting involved in the gallery community at all? Just patrons going to gallery openings and just starting that networking process?

    Darren (00:31:12):

    Um, I, I think the only gallery that we would go to is maybe Giant Robot at the time, and that's because again, we, that was the only one that we really knew about. Um, I think I knew about Things space as well, um, but I think our, the door opening to us really was through Eric, uh, Nakamura at Giant Robot. Uh, he's the one who initially opened the door to me to be a part of a few group shows, uh, with some of my acrylic paintings before we were, Trisha and I were working together. Um, and, uh, I don't believe I sold anything every time I showed there. So I'll still, again, it's a mystery, right? It's like, okay, so you show your work and how do people do this? You know? Yeah. Like, and then I, at that time, man, I had like, my house was just full of paintings.

    Darren (00:31:57):

    Like, you know, like you create new ones and then it just stacks up, it stacks up, it stacks up. So when we actually did the Post-It show, which was the first show that we had tried to do something collaboratively together, you know, again, my experience was, uh, I, I think I just accepted like, wow, it's really cool to show my work, but never expected anything to sell. So we went to the Post-It show. We had submitted, uh, I think it was like nine Post-its Trisha, I thought it was six. It might have been six. So just six experimental post-Its where Trisha did a drawing and I painted it. And then when we got there, we're searching the walls and we couldn't find them. So it's funny, cuz my thought instantly wasn't, oh, they sold, it was, oh, Eric forgot to put 'em up, <laugh>, or they got lost in the mail.

    Darren (00:32:42):

    And then we asked Eric like, oh, you know, kind of like really timidly, like, oh no, like, I don't want to be like, Hey dude, like, you forgot to put our work up, right? So I was just like, oh, so I don't see our work, you know, like, um, I can't find it. Where is it? You know? And then he was just like, oh, they sold. And we're like, I was like blown away by that, like what they sold, people actually like that. And then I think he invited us to the second drop, which is kind of like the show after the show where artists can create more and those sold as well. And that was just, uh, I think that was the first time Trisha and I were like, oh, maybe, maybe there's something to this. Maybe there's something we could actually pursue, you know?

    michael (00:33:16):

    And that, that first show, um, where you kind of discovered this, the, the power of the y'all's collaboration was back in what, 2014? Is that, is that, that, that original Post-it show?

    Darren (00:33:27):

    I think so. Trisha, right? Yeah.

    michael (00:33:29):

    And so I, I've seen online just a bit of your work, Darren, before the, the form that your work took, uh, before y'all got, you guys collaborated, but what was your work like, Trisha, before y'all j joined forces?

    Trisha (00:33:43):

    Uh, it was very, well, I would say the characters were not too different from what Giorgiko characters look like now. Um, but I used to paint in Gush and I would paint them just in flat colors, limited color palette. Um, so I did do a few illustrations for like, some small magazines, um, in that style. Um, but yeah, it's been a really long, long time. I don't even know if those, if there's evidence of that anywhere on the internet anymore.

    michael (00:34:13):

    <laugh>. Yeah, it was tough for me to, I couldn't find, I, I, I tried, but I, I didn't, I didn't see anything. Um, so that, that period between 2014 and when you kind of officially adopted the Giorgiko name in 2018, that four year period, was that you guys kind of exploring what the collaboration might look like and kind of gradually coming together? Or was it more quick than that and was it more of a conscious decision of, oh, let's do this and we just gotta figure it out over the next couple years?

    Darren (00:34:41):

    I think it was a slow process. Like we, we continued to do the Post-It show annually. Um, I think, uh, the first group show that we did was again, with Giant Robot and, uh, we had a handful of pieces that was the largest body of work I think we had created. And, and the biggest, and at that time, big was like a 12 by 12 square, you know, compared to the three by three, three by three inch, you know, post-it. Right. And, um, yeah, it was a very, uh, we walked towards it for sure. And at that time, I think we were, our main focus was actually running the art school that we had adopted the, the same art school that we were teaching at. We ended up, um, taking ownership of it. So, um, the Giorgiko like geco turning into Giorgiko. And then for it to become a full-time thing, I don't really think it was, it was, uh, that wasn't really something we were aiming for. It was more so something that was kind of happening while we were focused on running the school. Um, so it was, uh, it still is, I guess, a surprise to us that we're doing this full-time. Yeah.

    michael (00:35:44):

    So it, it almost like, uh, developed a life of its own outside of your, like you weren't even trying and it just kind of developed and flourished. That's awesome. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

    Darren (00:35:53):

    Yeah.

    michael (00:35:54):

    And so, was that difficult in any way, just giving up a bit of your own individual identity in favor of the larger brand? Um, was that something challenging to give up, or did you fully embrace it and be like, okay, cool, we're now a, a duo

    Darren (00:36:12):

    [inaudible] <laugh>, <laugh>,

    Trisha (00:36:14):

    We just talked about this last night. Okay. <laugh>. Um, so after I answer, Darren may have a very different answer, <laugh>, um, I would say that it was a lot more challenging for me. Um, I think, I think just like two different people coming together with their different processes sees and, um, and even vision, uh, and communication styles, like all these different things. So it wasn't just like, oh, two, two different art styles coming together. It's like, plus you got a factor in personality and us just being in a relationship, you know, and figuring out relationship stuff. So it was a little complicated and I felt like at the time I was still, you know, figuring out my artwork. So for me to do this precious little drawing for Darren to be like, oh, you should do this, I would get like, so sad or like so offended, like, oh, it wasn't good enough before, you know, whatever.

    Trisha (00:37:16):

    So I, I, I felt very protective over my artwork and it was really hard at the time to receive, um, any sort of suggestions or direction. But I'm happy to say that after many years of doing this and being married, uh, it's, it's a definitely a more smooth and gracious and like, trusting process so that there's a lot more back and forth and we are able to pivot and help each other as opposed to feel like, well, this was, this was the direction I wanted to go, and the way you wanna take it is like, like offensive to me in some way. <laugh>, you know, so mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yes. At the time it, it was a little more rocky on my end.

    michael (00:37:56):

    What about you, Darren?

    Darren (00:37:58):

    So, for me, yeah, so I would describe if there's a secret sauce to like, Giorgiko I think that Trisha is definitely that secret sauce. Like she's, she's the one who, um, that's where the magic happens is what, where, where Trisha's drawing in her journal and in her minds in her as a person, that's where it's at. Um, so I think I recognized that right away when I saw that, uh, first Children's book. I remember I was like, just crazy about it. I was like, dude, this is so good. Like, it was making me cry, it's children's book and it's making me cry, right? I'm like, that's powerful. And, uh, uh, so for me to, in a sense, be able to join forces with that, I was super excited. Like, it, it felt like a relief to me. Like, oh man, like, you know, I'm hitting walls with my paintings.

    Darren (00:38:41):

    I don't really know what to do, but this at least gives me something to focus in on and try to help it flourish. Right? Um, maybe Trisha was seeing it as dying when I first stepped in <laugh>, but like, I, I was loving it. I was like, uh, so, and, and, um, Trisha was like a, an artist that I really liked, I think at that time. Subsequently now I'd say she's like my favorite artist. So it's like, and that's, that's come as I've been able to see her work as I see, you know, more of the heart behind what she's doing. I just, uh, I love it. I love it so much. So it's, it's been a, a joy for me, uh, uh, Trisha carrying me <laugh>, <laugh> carry, carrying me on this journey, you know? Yeah.

    michael (00:39:23):

    You know, you mentioned the, the challenge of, uh, the early part of y'all's collaboration being a bit challenging. Um, I guess, has it been challenging as a whole, you know, because you're so intertwined both personally and professionally, um, has that been a challenge to kind of maintain a healthy, balanced relationship while also working together professionally?

    Darren (00:39:49):

    I think it feels just natural. I think cuz we've done so many things together. You know, we've run a school together. We were those art directors that didn't know what we were doing together. <laugh>, <laugh>, uh, there were a lot of things that we had to enter, enter into with a lot of humility in the sense that we didn't know what we were doing. So in that sense, uh, neither one of us were the experts in anything that we've ventured into. You know, even having kids, it's like we both had no clue what we were doing. So because of that, I think, uh, the ability to not just journey together, but actually have to lean on each other has been a, probably a more sharp experience. Um, the art journey, uh, us collaborating artistically, that was probably definitely the hardest one, just because that's something that, you know, we both were educated in it and stuff, so there was a lot more that we had to let go of. But, um, everything else, every other aspect of it, I think our collaboration, at least for me, it's brought a lot of comfort. It's like, I have somebody to do this with, and I'm not alone, and if we're gonna fail, we're both gonna fail together. You know, <laugh>, it's, uh, that's been, that's been a, a gift. Yeah.

    michael (00:40:58):

    Awesome. What about you, Trisha? Has that been challenging or about the same?

    Trisha (00:41:02):

    Yeah, I would totally agree with Darren. Um, and actually a lot of a question that we hear from a lot of people is like, how do you work with your spouse? Like, I could never work with them. Um, but for us, we're so used to it and, you know, we were working together even before we got married. So we, we do have a lot of practice with it, and as I mentioned, it was tougher in the beginning, but everything is, you know, everything is so, um, this is nothing new to us. Like entering, entering into something together as beginners together, figuring things out together. And as Darren said, we can lean on each other, we can help each other. So I love that we can, um, not only brainstorm together, but even ask each other for help. Like, Darren, can you help me with this perspective because I'm terrible at perspective, you know, or Darren can say, Hey, can you help me with this drawing because I can help him with that, or whatever, you know? And so it's really, um, it's just really a comfort that we can do that together. And I would say that any conflict we have is just like normal, you know? It's just a normal amount of just people working together and that's fine.

    michael (00:42:12):

    And so, at the point where you decided to formalize this collaboration, what led to the decision of, of giving it its own moniker rather than it being Darren and Trisha? What led to the Giorgiko name and what's the background of that? That name?

    Darren (00:42:26):

    I think definitely we actually made a conscious decision like that we were gonna no longer pursue our own, you know, artistic career, and that we were gonna double down and invest into, into what we were doing collaboratively. And I think at that time already, the work was morphing into something that wasn't, it was no longer just Trisha's drawings that I was painting. And in that sense, the, uh, the drawings were becoming more and more influenced by the paintings. And the paintings were morphing farther away from what I would've done if I was just painting my own picture. So it really did become its own unique thing. And, uh, so we felt like it justified a new name, that it was kind of almost like outside of us, this is something that, um, is, is, uh, solidifying. And, uh, uh, yeah. So that's, that's where, that's when we decided we, we needed something that was gonna not feel like two separate artists that are working on one thing, but it's like two artists that are, uh, together in building something and discovering in a sense this universe together as well.

    michael (00:43:30):

    And the Giorgiko name is that, um, I, I think I, I've read it's, um, maybe originally a mixing of your, your middle names, but then kind of developed its own meaning later on. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Can you tell me a little bit about that?

    Trisha (00:43:41):

    Yeah, so, uh, when we were trying to figure out, you know, the new moniker, we were thinking let's mix our names together, but Trish, uh, Trish-aron and Dar-isha was just not cutting it <laugh>, so we were messing around with some other stuff. And, um, Darren's middle name is George, my middle name, my Korean name is Hoyne. So we thought Georg ie, Georgie. Oh, that's kind of cute. Especially for like a sort of children's book style that we were going for in the beginning. Uh, Georgie company, Georgie Co. Oh, okay. That works. Um, but then the more that we were looking into like kind of the meaning behind the words, and you know what? Honestly, I think it came from us trying to make our like a logo and we're like, wow, Georgie, I think Georgie Company, Co. Was like, already taken or something like that, so that didn't work out.

    Trisha (00:44:36):

    So we looked for alternate spellings, and then the way we ended up with it we're like, well, it looks cool, <laugh> like, this looks good, but let's make sure it means something like not weird, you know, <laugh>. Um, and so we realized that -ko, k o, it's like a diminutive suffix in Japanese. So like, you know, people like Naruto-chan, you know, I don't know why that's the first Japanese name I can think of nato, but <laugh>, you know, um, like -chan is a, a suffix and -ko is another kind of suffix that's, I think it, it's to indicate like a child-likeness. Um, you know, you might use it for like a child or, you know, in cute way. Um, and that's perfect because Darren is Japanese, so it's like, Hey, like let's look into like, yeah, these roots, you know? Uh, and as for Georgie, you know, which is like the, the original like Greek version of George, um, we found out that it means farmer, um, or like an earth-worker or someone who toils in the earth.

    Trisha (00:45:45):

    And so we just felt like, wow, that was, um, kind of by chance we weren't looking or we weren't trying to create this meaning. But it really meshes well with, I think, kind of the themes we explore in our artwork of like, you know, childlike characters who just struggle. They struggle in life, they struggle to find, um, their way home. They are working hard, maybe not necessarily in like toiling in the dirt, but in the earth for sure, you know, with like external and internal forces. So yeah, it was just like a perfect, uh, just a perfect meaning we felt like to match our, what we're trying to convey through our artwork.

    michael (00:46:31):

    Yeah. No, that's very serendipitous. Um, I, I guess, you know, looking at your cv, it looks like after that 2018, um, kind of formalization, uh, you guys started showing, you know, with several galleries; you did group shows, you, you've, you did your first solar show in 2019, a year later. Um, so how did you, you know, start broadening that network? You, you mentioned Eric and Giant Robot being sort of a gateway into some of that. Um, but how did you start broadening those connections, meeting Andrew and start and, you know, spreading your brand further?

    Darren (00:47:01):

    Yeah. Um, I think that has, has been just, uh, it's just been, we kind of just been riding, it feels like a wave, uh, where we, uh, haven't really initiated almost anything. I feel like all the doors, right doors at the right timing has opened. And in that sense it's been, it's felt very, like, like you were saying, serendipitous or divine. Like we, we feel, um, just ex incredibly thankful cuz we nev I think looking at where we're at now, it, we never thought that we would be at this place. Um, and again, it wasn't really a goal, it was just something that was happening. So, uh, it just, one thing led to the other, like, I think that first group show, um, uh, you know, all the work ended up selling out, which again, was a huge surprise and, uh, come to find that some of those, uh, buyers, you know, were, uh, had connections in the industry, introduced us to different people, and, and one relationship led to the other.

    Darren (00:47:57):

    And, uh, yeah, that's how we got introduced to Andrew. Like, Andrew, I think, like reached out to us shortly after that. And, um, yeah, it's, it's just been one thing after the other and it's felt like just so much at the perfect timing. Like it's, it's, uh, it always kind of feels maybe like too much for us to handle cuz, um, it feels like we haven't quite, uh, I don't know what the right word is. We're kind of like plateaued. Um, every year it feels like it's something new and challenging, a, a larger gallery space, uh, a different project that we've never worked in. Um, so, uh, this whole journey has felt, uh, consistently new where Trish and I are, are feeling, um, yeah, just, uh, kind of, it's fresh, you know, it's like it's, uh. We don't know, we still don't know what normal is, I guess, you know, in that sense it's just like, okay, like, you know, we'll just keep going and just see where this, where this ends up. So it was not planned. It was definitely was not planned. It had nothing to do with our, uh, you know, being go-getters and like reaching out to people and introducing ourself. Like we didn't, we didn't do any of that. It just was, you know, people DMing us, people emailing us and, and finding out, you know, oh, they're so-and-so and they know so-and-so, and yeah.

    michael (00:49:08):

    I guess this constant state of never knowing what's next, is that overwhelming...? I mean that, I feel like that over time that can be a little, uh, overwhelming... To me. I mean, maybe I'm just, um, a very anxious person, but I <laugh> I feel like the constant unknown could be wearing on you.

    Darren (00:49:26):

    No, I mean, I, I think we're as anxious as anybody else. Uh, we have the same fears and we're subject to those same emotions. Um, I think from very early on, like something that has always ground Trish and I has, has been like our faith and just our, our belief that there's something, there's an external force that we believe is loving a, a God that is loving and, uh, that has a plan for us. And in that sense, um, whether we've suffered things that are unfortunate or fortunate, I think we're just kind of like, okay, you know, we'll, we'll go through this together. And like I said, you know, if we fail, we'll fail together, but it's not gonna be the end of the world. You know, like we, um, there's meaning behind it all. And, and I think even, especially actually in most of our failures, that's when Trisha and I have learned the most. That's when we've like discovered like some deep seated like heart issues or, or mental like things. And uh, and in that sense, of course, we, we never would be like, ah, yeah, like, here's another opportunity to fail, fail. Like, that's awesome, let's fail. You know, that's never the goal, but it's, it's become less scary having that, that foundation, uh, and that that un or at least that belief for us that, um, yeah, there's, there's meaning to it, you know?

    michael (00:50:43):

    Well, and I think that's what separates somebody that is, um, you know, more open to success than, than failures is it's taking, um, failures as, or looking at failures as a learning opportunity. And it's not a failure if you've gotten something out of it, it's never, it's not really a failure then at that point. Right, exactly. Um, so if you look at it at that way and you don't get defeated by it, then, um, it's also a good thing too, you know. Um, so diving into your, to your artwork and, and some of the themes that you guys work in, I wanted to, to highlight a couple of themes that I really, uh, noticed and appreciate. Um, one being just the, the juxtaposition between how like highly rendered everything is, but the characters themselves have really simplistic features. I, I really kind of appreciate, that's a great combination to me. Um, and that, you know, obviously the, the subjects themselves are, are children or childlike. Um, I guess why is that y your main focus has become children? Um, I, is it some way of retaining innocence? Like what's the, the choice, um, to, or what motivated that choice to have that be your primary focus?

    Trisha (00:51:51):

    I think definitely that juxtaposition of the simple characters with the, you know, more complex painting, that's definitely a direct influence from the two of us. You know, like my drawing style with Darren's painting style. So it definitely starts from there. Um, but yeah, I think over the years we have explored these themes of child likeness and I think it's, um, part of it is, um, uh, there's this quote from Fred Rogers, like, you are a child once too, I believe. Um, and I, I think when I first heard that, it just kind of hit me like, I think that's what we've been exploring. I think that's what we've been trying to figure out is that every person has been a child and maybe they don't remember it, but it's happened to them and I don't know how, we don't know how they got to where they are now, or, you know, maybe you can't imagine like such a kind of person being a child once, but it's like, hey, we all, were one's children and we all struggle with similar, um, fears, similar emotions, um, maybe not the exact same experience, but we could all share a similar like, seed of, or like root of that kind of, um, I don't know, struggle.

    Trisha (00:53:10):

    So like, for example, like maybe not everyone experiences severe depression to the point where, you know, they need to take antidepressants, like, just, just a random example, but everyone knows what it feels like to feel hopeless. Everyone knows what it's like to feel sorrow or grief, you know? Um, so like that kind of, that kind of connective, um, theme, I feel like is something that we try to look for. Like we've all shared similar struggles and feelings. Um, and so there is a point of connection between everybody and there is some sort of innocence that even if it's lost now, everyone has once had before. And to try to hold onto that in our pieces, I feel like is a way to hold onto hope for us too. Um, because I feel like we explore like darker themes, but it might not feel explicitly dark because of like the child likeness of it. But, you know, hopefully it's in a way that people from all different kind of experiences and backgrounds can relate to. Because we were all one's children.

    michael (00:54:13):

    Yeah. Be, I mean, yeah, they definitely, um, you can see the dark kind of atmosphere, you know, there's almost like a post, a post-apocalyptic sort of setting, but the characters never seem defeated by that, you know? And I think that's, that's pretty powerful as far as just communicating hope in dark times or, or dire situations. Um, does that, I guess, reflect back in some way on your own hopefulness and just, you know, working through difficult challenges and always keeping your head up? Is that sort of the spirit behind it?

    Darren (00:54:44):

    Yeah, I mean, I, I definitely feel like there's an aspect of that. I think, um, kinda like what Trisha is saying, like we, we hope that our artwork is relatable, you know, and relatable in the sense of these kids, these characters are, uh, being childlike or almost like kids. It's like in a post-apocalyptic, uh, environment, that's dangerous <laugh>, right? It's dangerous for a kid to be outside right now, you know? But even more so for a child, and you think about, you know, well, what is gonna protect these kids? What, uh, what hope is for them, you know, to survive in an environment like this? And I, I don't think our kids are depicted as superheroes in any sense. They, they are very much so weak. And you could see, uh, you know, almost like a weariness, you know, in a lot of these pictures too, that they've been journeying or earthwork.

    Darren (00:55:30):

    Right? Um, I think in general, Trisha and I, we we're not pessimistic, but we're not fully optimistic either. Like, I think we understand that life, uh, holds so many experiences and, uh, and often I think are are the most common one that we all experience is tragedy. It is, it's not necessarily those joyous moments that ring, uh, loudest in our minds. A lot of times it's the traumas and it's the difficulty. Um, but like Trisha said there, and, and like what you were picking up on, there's a sense of hope, I think, in every piece. And I think there, it's very hard to find. It's like almost like a whisper, you know, maybe it's not even illustrated in the painting, but there's a whisper of hope that's calling to the characters, you know? And, uh, I think our characters are, uh, all of 'em I feel like are kind of on this journey to try to find that. And, uh, we haven't really defined it in our work, uh, what that hope is. But, um, I see it as an invitation for the viewers to contemplate that for themselves. You know, like, what is the thing that is bringing me temporary hope, but what also will bring me ultimate hope? And is that possible? Like, you know, all those type of things, you know? Um, yeah. So I think that as humanity, that is what we're seeking for. That's what we're all looking for.

    michael (00:56:48):

    I mean, it's certainly, um, relevant considering the last handful of years and the amount of trauma that the world's told out on all of us <laugh>. So, I mean, I think that that sentiment is certainly relatable. Um, you know, looking at some of the, the recurring characters that, that you've had in your works, you mentioned Wonder earlier, which is sort of the, the, the, uh, central character. You also have Jay, which I, I, I think is a, is another recurring character. Um, do these people, um, are these subjects in your work represent, um, specific things or ideas? I think you might have mentioned that, that wonders is you, Trisha, effectively, but like in general, do the recurring characters tie back to people in your lives or, or specific ideas that you're trying to communicate?

    Darren (00:57:29):

    Um, some of them, yes. Some of them we're still discovering. And that's what's been so fun, is that, um, it feels like, uh, this world that we're building out is something that we are also discovering, uh, simultaneously as, as people are viewing it and as we're creating these characters. And I think a lot of times we have this archetype for character, like Jay, for example, who is based off of one of our friends. Um, and then, uh, and we just find him as an incredible person. His name is Juwan and he's just, and a person who has incredible resilience, um, and yet has this pure, uh, just like pure intention in everything that he does. He does it with such integrity that, um, I'm just blown by away by it constantly. Um, so I found that incredibly inspiring. We wanted to bring this character in, but at the same time, you know, you might have a person who has a certain characteristic, but given that they might walk through a certain trial, we never know what that person's gonna do.

    Darren (00:58:28):

    So in that sense, we want to, our characters are not fully defined in the sense that they're gonna react the same way every time to everything. Just like any of us as well. We might have a good day, we might have a bad day. Um, so in that sense, we, I think we see people like, like definitely wonder represents Trisha, uh, or is an archetype for Trisha, but we also see wonder as like an all person character, and Jay as an all person character, that at times we feel like wonder at fi at times we, we feel like Jay, you know? Um, so we kind of, again, this whole idea of wanting people to find empathy when they look at each other, to see themselves, you know, even when they look at their enemy or when they look at a friend, um, to see something that they might, uh, be able to resonate with.

    michael (00:59:13):

    And you mentioned, um, just now that, that this world that you're building, um, and it definitely seems like all of the work that you make as part of a larger universe, um, do you see it that way? Do you see that they're all part of the same world? Um, and you're kind of building this universe out through your work?

    Trisha (00:59:30):

    Yes. <laugh> <laugh>, yes. So, um, actually I think at the very start of Giorgiko we tried creating like an actual storyline cuz we thought, oh, maybe this will turn into a book. Um, and our ideas were just like, woo, like just going all over the place and we couldn't come up with anything cohesive. But I think, like Darren said, the joy has actually been in just discovering these characters. Um, we have a new, new character who I think we're kind of introducing for the first time in an upcoming show, and she's already like, I don't know, like a favorite, but like, oh, I think I know who she is. It was just so weird. Cuz I feel like I've drawn a character that looks like this many times before, like same haircut, but for some reason, like when we put her on the canvas, it's like she, she made sense.

    Trisha (01:00:24):

    It's like, oh, she's become her own person. So that's, that's really cool. And it's a very like, kind of intuitive organic process. Um, so yeah, the world, it is slowly building out. There's no like linear storyline that we know of yet. Maybe we'll find it at some point. Um, but yeah, and, and you know, we have plenty of paintings of like random characters who like never appeared ever again, but they might come back, you know? But as for now, they, those specific people maybe haven't like, been solidified. Um, but yeah, I, I think they're all part of this strange world that we're discovering.

    michael (01:01:03):

    No, it's really cool how it's, it's really kind of naturally develops and as a character just comes back organically over time, they, they gain presence or they gain, uh, an identity. Um, another kind of the thematic that I I wanted to highlight was the, the kind of contrasting, uh, clothing styles. A lot of times you'll have people with modern, modern street wear, but then also Victorian ruffles and <laugh>, you know, puffy shirts. Uh, so I guess tell me understand that, what is, what's the significance of the kind of disparate themes in, in clothing?

    Darren (01:01:35):

    I think originally it was just, uh, appreciation when I look at old classical paintings and it was, uh, uh, maybe even an exercise for me, like going to see these master painters painting these, you know, transparent translucent clothing with folds. And I was like, oh, I kind of want to try that. You know? But, um, I think it's turned, yeah, and something much deeper. Like we have kids with street wear, like you said, classical, uh, uh, outfits, um, kind of European style. And then we have other stuff that has popped up as well. And I think, again, we're kind of trying to, uh, make this universe a place that doesn't have a specific time, you know, it doesn't have a specific place in history. Again, kind of alluding to, yeah, maybe when we look in the past, like at that Victorian era, it's like, I have no, I don't think I'd relate to those people at all.

    Darren (01:02:23):

    You know, like they're different humans, you know, but they probably have the same emotions I would imagine ever since the beginning of time. Like people have had the same emotions, you know, like we still are driven by these, um, very human desires in, in cravings. And, um, yeah, so in that sense you might, we might have a friend or, it's funny cuz we've, we've dealt like, uh, explore these ideas like, you know, saying, um, as we shared a few that we're discovering it, um, we just throw around these ideas like, oh, maybe all the kids are rough. Maybe they're in a gang, you know, or maybe they're the ones tagging everything, you know, maybe it's not the kids that are wearing street street clothes. And, uh, it just becomes really fun for us, you know? And we laugh and we joke and, you know, a lot, a lot of times those things won't manifest in the paintings, but to us, that world is expanding and, you know, it, it, it finds its way in. And so yeah, we do have that definitely that dark element, but we also have that humorous element as well, you know, in our work that pops up from time to time.

    michael (01:03:21):

    And it's interesting, the, the two different types of themes that we've just talked about, both of them seem to tie back to a desire to encourage people to be more empathetic. You know, Trisha said the quote from Fred Rogers, which thank you for bringing up Mr. Rogers. He's an amazing person. And I cry every time I see him do that, uh, speech to the Congress when, you know, <laugh> Amazing. Anyway, um, you had said that, you know, the desire to focus on children was because that's a relatable experience for everybody. Everybody knows what it's like to be as a child. And Darren, you just said, well, the ti the timeless, you know, people back in the Victorian area probably had similar emotions as people do today. So kind of relating to the human, the, the shared human experience that we've all had in these different kinds of ways, I thought that was really interesting. I guess what do the dogs represent in all of this? Um, that's another constant. Uh, you know, are they companions? Are they meant to, you know, relate to a certain, uh, I guess characteristic of humanity? What are the, what are the, the dogs?

    Trisha (01:04:22):

    Uh, so we see them as basically symbolizing humans, uh, kind of the good sides and the not so good sides. So they're just like the, just just the basic carnal, uh, side of people, you know? Um, and so that's why in some paintings they can be seen as, as a companion, as a pet, as an accessory, just, you know, as something kind of harmless. And then on the, you know, more extreme side, we sometimes show dogs, like even attacking people. We've had a few post-its where like, dogs are biting kids. And I don't think we've revisited like that extreme violence <laugh> in our work since then, but we, that is a possibility, you know? And actually, the funny thing is, um, Darren and I both have not had great experiences with dogs. Um, I wouldn't say that we dislike dogs like, period, but we've both had not great experiences.

    Trisha (01:05:22):

    And so we're just very keenly aware of like, you know, a dog is an animal, you know, it can, if you train it well, like, it can be so sweet, it can be a wonderful companion, um, but if it taps into its animalistic side, like it can bite you, it can rip your face off <laugh>. You know, like, that's just the reality of it, honestly. So I think when we are creating these dogs, um, we do have a lot of fun with the dog character. Like sometimes they're just straight up goofy, uh, and it's a way for us to just express our, you know, our weird sense of humor and our, um, weird world that expands in weird ways. Um, but a lot of the times, yeah, I think the dogs, they, they're just kind of, um, unpredictable. You don't know how they're going to react if it's gonna be in fondness or in ferocity, right? <laugh>.

    Darren (01:06:15):

    Yeah, no, a hundred percent. I mean, one thing I would add to that is that, uh, as much as they can be a companion, I guess on the violence side, they can also be representative of the vices that we hold onto. And some of those vices bring us great comfort, bringing us great, uh, uh, yeah, can soothe pain, you know, in a lot of ways. But vices outta control can be the very thing that kill us, you know? So in that sense, they're, they're, like Trisha was saying, the, there's a, a lethal unpredictability to the dogs, um, as much as they can be your very, very, very best friend and anything that you might be like clinging onto, you know, in, in the hardest circumstance. So yeah, we, we don't intend for them. I mean, that sounds very negative and scary, but we don't intend them for, for that to be, uh, uh, uh, necessarily the, uh, the enemy of the universe. It's, it's just a reality that, uh, these dogs are companions to the characters, just like these things are companions to us, you know?

    michael (01:07:16):

    Interesting. Um, so I wanted to dive a little bit into how you guys work together and how you kind of divide up the work between you. Um, you know, starting in the kind of the ideation, um, part of your, your process, is that mostly you Trisha working in a sketchbook? Or are you guys collaborating on ideas in the initial state? And has the way in which you work changed over time?

    Trisha (01:07:37):

    Uh, I would say that it just kind of depends on the season. Uh, generally Darren does like to flip through my sketchbooks and my journals and like just kind of see like what's been cooking up in my head, what I've been cooking up in my head, <laugh> what's been going on in my head. Um, and, you know, if he likes something in particular, he'll point it out or ask me like, oh, could you explore this particular idea more? And then that's where a lot of times, like, we can have some discussions. Um, I remember in another interview we did mention like shower ideas. I don't know when's the last time that happened, but <laugh>, you know, sometimes there are other methods of communication such as Darren, like just thinking in the shower and then like yelling, like, Hey, I have an idea, write it down.

    Trisha (01:08:23):

    I'm like, OK, <laugh>. So, um, I wouldn't say that, you know, all the ideas are from me, but it's like, because I have, you know, a bunch of sketches and ideas that Darren can flip through freely, you know, he can riff off of that. And whenever, you know, he's inspired by something, like, I'll do my best to like kind of explore that. And so we do go back and forth. It's a little harder to make changes, like once the pieces are like starting to get painted in, um, because that's already like a big commitment to the canvas. Um, but it's happened before where, you know, I made some suggestions or he completely changed it and repainted the whole thing. So there is some flexibility there. But I would say a lot of the ideation, uh, is where the collaborative ideas come from.

    michael (01:09:16):

    And so, at, at the point between the point where, um, you guys have, have determined that you want to take a concept further, um, Darren, do you just jump right into a painting? Or is there a period of like refining a composition in the drawing phase before you're ready to transition to, to painting?

    Darren (01:09:35):

    Um, sometimes, but I would say more often it's, it's a character. It's a character that Trisha draws. Uh, typically the, the pose is more or less figured out, um, because body language has, um, you know, there's not, uh, there's not a lot happening in the expression of our character spaces. Um, so a lot of it has to do with body language and or an element or two that the character's holding. Um, so Trisha will draw that. Um, she doesn't really draw backgrounds in her sketchbook. Um, so all of that is figured out actually on the campus. We typically don't discuss it. Same with color palette and, and values and all those other things. Um, so once the drawing is there and the character, like, I understand what Richard saying, trying to communicate at that point. Either she'll draw it on the canvas or I'll draw it on the canvas, and uh, and then from there it just kind of starts, um, I just, uh, tack the painting and uh, figure it out as I go.

    Darren (01:10:30):

    So the environment will build out. And, uh, that's really kind of calm from, at least for me, kind of going back to how I used to work as a kid, um, in school, like I said, I just didn't want to listen <laugh>. So <laugh>, um, I would draw, but I wouldn't draw because I would had a, the angle of creating an image I would draw to entertain myself, so the picture would develop as I'm telling the story in my minds. And, uh, and you know, in the same way that we're discovering the Giorgiko universe, we discover each painting as it's developing. And that's why in a lot of ways, if Trisha does come into the studio while I'm painting, um, there is flexibility. It's like, Hey, what if we add this element here? Or, okay, this is the meaning, maybe we can, you know, change the lighting in this way or, or change the background in this way. Um, but yeah, once it's kind of in, it does become harder. And there has been times where Trisha's like, oh, can you move? I'm like, <laugh> two inches to the left, and I'm like, ah, like two inches to the left <laugh>, you know? Um, that doesn't really happen so much anymore. I think we've gotten better at just being on the same page probably. Uh, I don't know, maybe Trisha's just holding her tongue a lot more, but, uh, <laugh>. <laugh>,

    Trisha (01:11:39):

    Yeah. Well, I think we've also gotten better at just trusting each other. That's true. So I, if I have an idea, and it's like a huge burden for Darren to adjust it, like if he can, if we can get on the same page, then he'd be willing to adjust it. And vice versa. If I see something, then I'm like, yeah, it's not exactly what I was going for, what I wanted. It's like, but I trust Darren's process, so even if it's not like, quite what I was looking for, like we're in it together. So I think we have gotten to become better work partners in that way too.

    michael (01:12:11):

    No, that's awesome. Yeah. Cause I was gonna ask you like, what does compromise look like in terms of like, as you encounter and navigate disagreements about how a piece should go between yourselves, what does that compromise process look like? And it sounds like it's something that's just gotten better as you guys have matured and, and grown more, uh, I guess close in your collaboration.

    Darren (01:12:32):

    Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah.

    michael (01:12:34):

    So as far as, uh, the choice to go with oil paint for your work, I know you said earlier, uh, Darren, that your, your original work was in acrylics, that you did a lot of acrylic paintings. So what drove the decision to, to go with oil? And what is it that you like about oil as a painting medium?

    Darren (01:12:51):

    Yeah. Um, I mean, oil is what I mainly focused in while I was at art center. Um, it was a brand new medium to me, entering art center. Uh, I had painted an acrylic prior to that. Um, and then when I graduated, I think, uh, I was in such a explorative stage in, uh, my painting process. I needed to just pump things out quick. I was just trying to figure things out. So I transitioned to acrylic. Um, I also like, uh, you know, it's not toxic and, uh, it's just easier in a lot of ways faster. But when we started painting, um, bigger and, um, I don't know, I just kind of refound it and, and re fell in love with it. Uh, I guess I love the, uh, slow drying process, um, which I know for a lot of people is, uh, very difficult.

    Darren (01:13:42):

    But, um, for me, I think, uh, it allows me to take my time when I'm rendering something out, um, not rushing and fighting the medium at that point. And then also, there's kind of a limitation to oil. At a certain point you paint, uh, so much and it's still wet. You can't really do anything until it dries to do the next layer. And for us, since we're working, or for me while I'm working intuitively and for Trisha, as she's observing it and giving direction, um, that gives time, that gives pause, you know, which I think, uh, again, can be seen as like a, a roadblock or, or a, a like a negative thing. But I think for us, in our process, it helps, it helps us kind of step back, uh, have to just look at it and wait. And then, uh, a lot of times that's when new ideas come in or that's when direction change will happen. And, um, there's opportunity to do that, you know? So.

    michael (01:14:32):

    Awesome. So it almost creates these like reflection points for you guys to, to think further about the piece. And what about three-dimensional works? I know in, in, you know, one of the, the, uh, the show that you had at, at Mesa, uh, art Center, you had some figures and you've, you've explored your work in the third dimension. Um, how did that process start and how did you get to expand beyond the two dimension?

    Darren (01:14:54):

    Yeah, that was just another door. Um, I think it was actually open through Andrew connecting us with, uh, Vince. That was our first sculpture. And, uh, that's been so much fun. I don't know, Trisha, if you wanna talk more about this? Um,

    Trisha (01:15:07):

    Yeah. Um, it was our first time, so we had no idea what we were doing. Uh, but it was a, yeah, it was just a new challenge to figure out, like, what does our character look like in 3d and what does it look like to work with a third party? And what do they need from us? What do we need from them? And just figuring that out. It was just a whole new learning curve. Um, but the end product was wonderful. Like, we just love the sculpture that came out of it. Dear Wonder. Um, like every time I look at it, I just smile, you know? Which sounds funny cuz it's like our own product, but it's like, I just love how it turned out. And it's so perfectly, I feel like, encapsulates the feeling we want with our character wonder, you know, like just a sense of like, oh, preciousness and sweetness and hopefulness, you know, all these different things. And just seeing it in the flesh is just really amazing. So yeah, it's, like I said, it was a learning curve, so I'm sure that, um, with each project, like hopefully we'll just continue to get better and better at figuring these things out. Um, but the end result is just awesome, so. Cool.

    michael (01:16:17):

    How involved were you with the, uh, the sculpting process?

    Trisha (01:16:21):

    So, with Vince, um, we sent sketches and their team was so amazing. Like right from the get-go, they sent us 3D modeling, um, just pictures. And we are like, oh my gosh, <laugh>. Like, that's crazy. I don't know how you got that from this rough sketch that I, I gave them. I, I did give them like a turnaround, um, but we were just immediately blown away. So of course the first rendition of it is like, not exact, but it was very close. So just from there we gave like, some direction, just some tweaks and just asked them. And then they would make the changes, they would send us more renditions. And then after a while we just settled on like, this is it, this is the one. And then, you know, we also have to talk about like the material and, you know, the size, just those different things, just communication. And then they sent us the prototype and then we were just, just amazed, totally amazed.

    michael (01:17:16):

    That's awesome. Are there other mediums that you'd guys would like to explore someday that you haven't had an opportunity to, to try?

    Darren (01:17:23):

    Yeah, I mean we've, we've dabbled, we're dabbling in a lot, I think this year because we have a few more sculpture projects that are in the works. Um, we, uh, we have dabbled in, uh, like barely dipped our toe in animation. Um, cuz that's something we would love to see. So our character is moving. Um, there's, uh, mural opportunities that are being presented to us. Uh, so that's another thing where it's, it, it's similar. I mean, we're painting, but just on a different scale, right? <laugh>, we're both scared of heights, so it's kind of fun, <laugh> we're like, how are we gonna do this? You know, but, but we're gonna, we'll try. Um, so there's all these, there's, there's a lot of different things I think that we're excited for. Um, and uh, again, that just, I think expand this universe. And I think our hope too is that this universe starts to enter like, like our world a lot more. And I feel like sculptures was one way to do that, right? Um, I think animation is another way to do that. I think murals is, again, a whole nother way where our characters are interacting with an, an actual physical environment, you know, in the public, you know? So there is, uh, those things really get us excited. It just, for us, it's, it's not necessarily trying to, uh, get into different mediums and stuff, but it's more so like, how can this universe interact with humanity in a new way, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

    michael (01:18:42):

    Well, and murals kind of ties back to your experience with, uh, street art growing up, I guess, um, you know, minus the dance battles, I guess. <laugh>.

    Darren (01:18:51):

    Amen. We might be dancing, you know, across <laugh>, across the scaffolding. <laugh>.

    michael (01:18:57):

    So, changing gears a bit, I wanted to talk to you a little bit about the experience, and you mentioned it earlier. Um, you guys ran a school, uh, you, you had your own, um, art school for a while, owners and directors of Rainbow Art in, uh, you took it over in 2017 and then ultimately made the hard decision to close it down in 2021. Um, which that's amazing, just owning your own school. Uh, h how did you guys first get involved with, um, I guess the school? Was it as teachers?

    Darren (01:19:23):

    Yeah, it was at te as teachers and I think for both of us, uh, it was not something we, uh, we did it because it was seemed like an easy job. <laugh>, you know, <laugh> like going to art school, just transfer what we learned to kids, uh, quickly learned. It's not an easy job <laugh> dealing with kids and stuff. Um, but we learned a lot through it. And, uh, I think because both Trish and I were, were willing to learn, uh, the director of the school and the owner at the time who had initially hired us when she was retiring, cuz she had run that school for 15, 16 years, like faithfully and like, became a, a huge impact in that community. Um, she felt like she can, uh, trust us with it. So she, she kind of handed the business off to us. And, uh, that was a hard decision for us.

    Darren (01:20:10):

    That was a really hard decision because, um, sure we had grown as teachers, but owners and like <laugh>, right? <laugh>, uh, it was, uh, uh, like I mentioned before, I think our faith played a huge role in it. And, and we just felt like as we prayed through it, we just kind of felt like this is, um, we felt like there was something good about it, you know? And, uh, so we again took a swing at it and, uh, did it full-time and, um, grew the school, uh, by the time we were before Covid, before the lockdown happened, um, we had, we're serving servicing over like a hundred families a week. Um, wow. And the school's expanding. Uh, 2020 was actually the beginning of 2020 was the first year we were in the black for our business. So we actually had made money and we were starting to save and invest and like, okay, we're gonna expand the school. Like it was our thing, you know, a hundred percent was our thing. Um, and then yeah, COVID happened and, and in a sense it was kind of taken, uh, from us, which was extremely painful. Um, but

    michael (01:21:12):

    So it, it was covid that, that really motivated that choice to close down?

    Darren (01:21:16):

    Yeah, it was, uh, it was, uh, I think I see it. So we, it's funny, we had, uh, created a body of work for, uh, a things space solo show called What Is and What Is Not. And uh, the theme was, uh, apocalypse, right? And this was, uh, this work was created during the 2020 year while we were trying to still keep our school and survival mode, all this stuff. And, um, the whole idea of apocalypse in the West, we think of like meteors falling from the sky and total destruction, right? Like those, those movies that come out. Um, but uh, really like the original definition is kind of like a shaking that, uh, that causes destruction, but it also reveals, you know, truth that reveals something that, um, in a sense is like a, a a positive thing, you know? So that year for us was a shaking, it was a shaking for us in our personal life.

    Darren (01:22:12):

    It was a shaking, um, with the school because, um, like I said, it was starting to have this success. So we were headed in a, a specific direction, which was bigger is better, you know, uh, more students, you know, more, more locations are spreading our program to other schools. Like, it was, it was strange cuz I think we were a week or two weeks away from hiring two new teachers Wow. And getting our program implemented into a local school district. So it was like, so many things were about to happen right before the lockdown. And then it happens, we try to make this transition to online and it just doesn't work. Like, uh, the parents, uh, nobody knowing how long it's gonna last. They just didn't want their kids to be on another screen for an extra couple hours. They're already doing that for school.

    Darren (01:22:59):

    So, um, we didn't retain a lot of our students. They were just like, oh, just, you know, hold on till things reopen. We ended up just running outta money. That was kind of the reality of it. And we, we can no longer, we, we lasted for around six months and then we literally cleaned out our bank account just trying to keep the school afloat. And at that point we just started talking, we're like, maybe, you know, maybe we can't do this or maybe this is like, uh, the closing of the season. And I think the thing that brought us comfort to actually finally pull that trigger, um, we were kind of just praying, and I had this picture in my head of like a tree that had been like, cut down to the stump. Like, um, you know, it looked dead, but it just cut down to the stump.

    Darren (01:23:38):

    And the word that came to my mind was like pruning, like the idea that, you know, when something is pruned, uh, uh, like the garden is pruning. It doesn't have an intention of killing the plant, it's actually to cut it down so it grows and bears better fruit in the next season, but for the time it's like you cut away all the branches and everything, right? So that in my mind was like, I felt like we just got pruned. It's like down to the very core of like, why are we even doing this? You know, like, what is the purpose of this? And it, and it came back down to like, you know, to be able to share, you know, this gift that we'd be given through art, uh, with people. And I think that when I felt that, when both of us felt that we were like, you know, the school was just a branch, it was a manifestation of this.

    Darren (01:24:22):

    Um, but um, maybe that branch is being cut off right now, but the heart of why we're doing what we're doing is still there. And that gave us a ton of peace, to just be like, okay, let's close it and, uh, trust, you know, that it, that, um, you know, other things, other fruit will come from it, you know? And I think we've seen that of Giorgiko. Cuz actually Giorgiko even wasn't a, it was definitely not a financially viable thing actually when we closed the school. Like it, um, so we were like, oh man, like we have nothing. We had two kids at the time too. It was just like, we didn't, we didn't know what to do. But, um, yeah, so, uh, again, going back, like when we thought about 2020, when the lockdown first happened, we're like, oh, the school's gonna increase.

    Darren (01:25:05):

    Like online learning. It's like, dude, we don't have to be limited by our, our classroom sizes and stuff. Like we could just teach a lot more, but, and we thought art was just gonna tank. Like nobody's gonna buy art right now, <laugh>. But actually the opposite thing happens, which was, you know, the school failed and then all of a sudden our artwork just started taking off and opportunities just started, you know, uh, opening up. And, um, that was a grace that was a hundred percent a grace where we were just, uh, uh, we really weren't in a season of like twiddling our thumbs for very long, you know?

    michael (01:25:37):

    So it allowed you to channel that energy, um, and that desire to, to share, you know, your hope with everybody else from the school to your artwork.

    Darren (01:25:46):

    Exactly. Exactly.

    michael (01:25:47):

    That's awesome. I mean, was it, was it difficult while you were doing both to do both <laugh>, I mean, while, while also, like you said, taking care of twin boys and, you know, maintaining a healthy relationship and work life balance while running a school and a professional art career?

    Darren (01:26:05):

    Yes. <laugh>

    michael (01:26:06):

    <laugh>.

    Darren (01:26:07):

    It was, it was, it was funny, like you say, a healthy work life balance. I, yeah, I just think it was not healthy. Oh, okay. You know, like it was not healthy. And, uh, yeah, I, I think less in that sense, you know, what I said before, I thought we thought more is better, you know, school expanding all this stuff, but sometimes less is more, you know. Sure. And, uh, things have been cut back severely for us since that, but it's definitely allowed us to double down, reinvest in the other things like family <laugh>, right? Like, uh, our work. And, um, that's been incredibly beautiful. You know, it's, it's been, it's been a powerful thing for us to kind of come to that realization.

    michael (01:26:44):

    Do y'all think you'd want to teach in some form again, you know, maybe not own an art school per se, but you know, actually just participate in the teaching of art?

    Darren (01:26:55):

    I think a hundred percent. And, and it, so one of the things that has been, again, one of these blessings is we, we are still in the same location that our school was at. Uh, we're sh we're, we still have the same studio space and that's what we're using now. And, uh, most of our students were local. So, uh, we still see them. They still come by, you know, every once in a while when we walk, when we're walk in the city or getting a bite to eat, we'll see them. Um, and, uh, a lot of doors have opened up since then. So we've had students that were in high school now they're in college, uh, at art colleges, at art Center even, and they contact us and they're like, Hey man, I need help this project. Can you like, gimme some suggestions? Can you critique this for me real quick?

    Darren (01:27:36):

    So we're still doing it in a sense, which is so cool. There's no money involved, but it just feels so much more authentic. It's like, actually when we officially like originally opened a school, it's like this was actually the dream was to just be able to talk to kids and have these relationships and actually like the whole business side of it. And maybe we're doing things wrong. It complicated things like crazy, you know, like you have parents that wanna see progress and growth and you can't just do that. You know, like if you're really trying to teach the kids, sometimes they gotta fail, sometimes they get, most of the time they have to come home with a bad drawing and sit with it and the parents aren't happy, you know, <laugh>. But, um, it's allowed for actually a, a more natural teaching relationship, more of a mentor type relationship, uh, with, with our previous students and, and with other people that come, come through our doors at the studio. So, um, definitely open to other teaching opportunities in the future too. But for now, I think, uh, we see a full plate still of, um, opportunities to share, you know, this gift. So.

    michael (01:28:38):

    Excellent. That's wonderful. So let's talk about your new show. You have a new solo show opening at Wwa Gallery on April 6th. Uh, it's in Hong Kong, and, uh, it's in collaboration with Think Space Gallery, who you've obviously worked a lot with. Uh, so what can you tell me about this new body of work?

    Darren (01:28:56):

    Yeah, so this, this is a new body of work. Uh, the theme is the Seat of Peace, um, which kind of goes in line with a lot of things we've already been talking about. Um, it's just a further exploration, I think. Um, uh, there's a number of large paintings. There's a number of drawings that are produced for the show, and all of 'em are kind of centered around, um, our characters seeking peace seeking, uh, uh, like where, where is that even found? Is it found in conflict, like trying to, uh, aggressively take it, you know, or fight to keep it? Or is it found in, um, you know, the absence of external and internal struggle in turmoil? And if that is a real thing, like how can you even find a place where there is no turmoil? Right? Um, and then there's this element where, uh, I guess a third option of what if peace is given, what if it's like, uh, a divine seed that is planted in the ground and, uh, it needs to grow, it needs to be fostered and, and, um, you know, uh, a seed it has to die, which is a kind of an interesting concept.

    Darren (01:30:01):

    It has to dye the plants in the ground, and then it comes back to life and it produces fruit and it reproduces its life over and over and over. So we were kind of ins, or we were directly inspired by like the biblical narrative of, uh, Jesus and his death, his resurrection into new life, and kind of like what that symbolizes. And, uh, we mimic that through this seed of peace illustration. And, uh, our characters are kind of interacting with that and trying to figure out like, well, is that sufficient? Is that enough? So we really are inviting the viewers to kind of come in and, and, uh, ask those questions that are real to them, and hopefully use our characters as a vehicle to kind of navigate that as well. And, uh, we're, we're excited for it. I mean, this is, uh, yeah, this is a, it's gonna be a cool show, I think.

    michael (01:30:50):

    Awesome. And, and that theme that you just described, did you develop that first and kind of work within the boundaries of that idea, or did that kind of develop, or did you just start working and then just identify the theme after the fact?

    Darren (01:31:03):

    I think it's, uh, it's funny, like, uh, we've been so busy the last few years, I, in a really good way that it's felt like we've just been pumping out work. Um, and of course all of that has been through Trisha's sketchbook, but this was, uh, one of, I would say our first shows where we really kind of had the theme first. And we were exploring, Trisha was exploring, had time to explore through her sketchbook, and we discussed things a lot more. Um, there's still definitely an element when we got to finishing the paintings and looking at 'em all in sitting, and we were like, what does this mean again, <laugh>, but that means to wrestle with it. Uh, but, uh, yeah, it, I think we're, it feels like we're starting to get, uh, able to get a little bit more ahead of our shows and actually start to think about things more, which in a sense feels much more authentic. It feels like, uh, when, when people ask us questions about it, we can actually talk about it when it's kind of like, um, what do you, what do you think it means? You know, <laugh> <laugh> and like, uh, kind of try to riff off of what they're saying. But I think that this is, yeah, that's why I think we're both excited for this show. It's, it's, it feels different.

    Trisha (01:32:07):

    Well, I would say that for previous shows, it's, it's not like random total randomness, like just slapping something on a wall and expecting people to, you know, inform us on the means. Yes. Thanks. I appreciate, I wouldn't say it's to that degree. Yeah. Yeah. It's more so, um, because we already work very intuitively, it's like, you know, we can kind of feel towards something. It's like, I feel like it's pulling in this direction and I feel like we're expanding in this direction, but we can't quite put it into words until we see the full body work. And then from there it's like, ah, we can put together a statement like now we fully see like the dots connecting, you know? But in this case, like Darren said, um, from the get-go, because we started thinking about this last year, um, we just thought, let's work towards this. Let's specifically build, build towards this. Um, so it is also a new experience for us, uh, to work so purposefully, but I think there's still that element of that intuition and reacting and, uh, just pivoting. So it, I would say it's still, it's still like how we tend to work, but sort of in a, uh, less precarious way this time, maybe <laugh>.

    Darren (01:33:20):

    Sure. Yes. Very much so.

    michael (01:33:21):

    Do you think the upfront, um, kind of, uh, sketching out of the idea first and, and this change in the way that you work is maybe a product of the pruning that we talked about earlier, just having more time to, to focus your energy on this?

    Trisha (01:33:36):

    Totally. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. I don't even, when I think back to those times where we were balancing the stu the school with doing our artwork, like it doesn't compute in my mind. I don't know how we survived those years. Yeah, yeah. But that's where I feel like what Darren was mentioning before, that when the doors were open, we just walked through it, you know, the opportunities just presented themselves. There's no way we could track down every single opportunity and like, figure things out and then produce the work, and then, you know, it's like the doors open, we just need to run through it. And that's also why sometimes it was a bit precarious. Like, I kind of feel like this, but we'll figure out the exact meaning a little bit later, <laugh>, you know, just constantly trying to keep up catch up.

    michael (01:34:21):

    Do you think this is the way that you'll work going forward?

    Darren (01:34:25):

    I think it's an option. I think that, uh, uh, there is a certain survival mode that we got comfortable with, you know, where I was like, okay, you know, like Trisha said, I think she worried it way better than I did <laugh>. Yes. Like there, there's definitely intention in everything that we're doing, uh, in all the stuff we did previous. But, um, there's space to rest now. There's space for us to, I think, uh, like before our whole world was the art school, you know, uh, and, you know, knocking out paintings for the shows that we had coming up, and then we had to figure out how to parent, parent our kids and all the other things that we're involved with. Now there's just so much more where we're, you know, hanging out with, with people that we love and supporting people that we love. And in that sense, I think it, it's only gonna make our artwork richer in the sense that we're gonna have a more human connection. We have more human connections now. Um, so that I'm, I don't know, I'm curious to see how that inspires our work moving forward. That, you know, um, hopefully it, it brings us closer to people, you know, a work closer to people.

    michael (01:35:26):

    Excellent. Is there a piece in this new show that challenged you maybe more than some of the other pieces?

    Darren (01:35:32):

    I would say, uh, um, not technically, but on a, on a mental side, yes. Uh, Trisha had alluded to this new character that is being introduced and, uh, maybe a divisive character, a little bit, a character that has a little bit of edge to it, <laugh>. And, uh, the character's name is Judith. And the way we see her is a character who has internal struggle. Like she has this internal struggle where she doesn't do what she wants to do. So in one of our paintings, she is giving like a pinky promise with one hand, and behind her back, she's crossing her fingers knowing that she's gonna break her promise. And when we paint, when I painted that and when Trisha drew it, I was like, oh man, like, there's something about this that is scary. Cause it's like, that's me. You know? It's like, I say what I believe, I do believe what I believe, but I also break my promises and contradict myself endlessly in life, you know? So, um, it's easy to paint that person as the bad guy, you know? It's like, oh, that's the bad person. Don't be that person. But I, I feel like both Trish and I in love with this character. Cause we were like, no, this is like, this is like kind of real, this is kind of all of us. And in that sense, maybe it is a bad guy, but it's like, but then I'm the bad guy. <laugh>, you know, it's like, uh,

    Trisha (01:36:51):

    We're all the bad guy.

    michael (01:36:53):

    <laugh>. Well, it kinda goes back to what y'all were saying earlier about these characters may not be different people, but just different aspects of our, our individual characters.

    Darren (01:37:01):

    Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

    michael (01:37:03):

    Um, how many pieces are there gonna be in the show? Has that been decided yet?

    Darren (01:37:06):

    We're looking at around 20. Um, there's, uh, I think nine, uh, correct me if I'm wrong, Trisha, nine paintings of various size. And then, uh, we're looking at 11 drawings. Um, there's also gonna be, uh, at least planned right now, there's gonna be a screen print release that, uh, that Trisha really worked on really, uh, hard this the last few weeks. So yeah, it's, uh, it's a, it's a good body of work. We're excited for it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>,

    michael (01:37:32):

    Are you gonna be able to make it out to Hong Kong for the opening?

    Darren (01:37:35):

    That is the plan. We're still trying to figure that out logistically. Um, we might even bring our kids, which is kind of exciting, um, cause we haven't done that, uh, in the past. But, uh, yeah, they're kind of at this age where, uh, I don't know, they're, they're little humans, <laugh>

    michael (01:37:56):

    And they have their own, they have their own personalities now too. Yeah.

    Darren (01:37:59):

    Yeah.

    Trisha (01:37:59):

    They're not just smoothing blobs anymore. <laugh>. Yeah,

    Darren (01:38:01):

    Exactly. Exactly. So we kind of feel like there's, there's opportunity here where they, they'll be able actually experience it in proper, remember a lot. So we're like, oh, this, this would be really cool. So we'll see.

    michael (01:38:12):

    It's amazing. Um, and your business manager, Tom, which, you know, shout out to Tom, also mentioned that you might have something else coming up in May, is that it seemed like it was still up a little up, up in the air. I wanted to ask though, is that something you're able to talk about or is that still uncertain? Uh, I think

    Darren (01:38:26):

    So. Uh, it's, it's, it is scheduled in, but at this point in time we have an, uh, show in London with Jeri. And then, uh, yeah, the rest, uh, the rest of the year, we have a lot of shows, uh, and into, uh, next year as well, 2024. Um, but we'll, we'll save those things for later. But yeah, the next big thing is definitely, uh, wow and, uh, Hong Kong. And then, uh, quickly after that, it's gonna be Ojuri in London.

    michael (01:38:50):

    And is that screen print that you mentioned for the show in Hong Kong gonna be available at the show, or is it something that's gonna be released later?

    Darren (01:38:56):

    I think we'll see. Uh, I, I, we def at this point in time, it's, it's laid out that we'll at least have one at the show to present. Um, but as for the actual, uh, timeline for one production's gonna happen and all that stuff, we just don't know. So I don't wanna make any promises and get hopes up before. Yeah.

    michael (01:39:14):

    Awesome. Uh, where can people find you online so they can stay up to date with all these new things you got going on?

    Darren (01:39:20):

    Uh, well definitely our Instagram is probably where they'll be able to reach out to us easiest. So that's, uh, at @giorgiko.la and then, uh, we have a website, um, uh, giorgiko.com.

    michael (01:39:31):

    All right. And last question, and then normally just have one person answering this, but if you each want to answer it separately, that's cool. I, I usually ask people at the end, uh, who is one artist that you'd like to see me have on the show?

    Darren (01:39:44):

    Okay. Me first, Trisha? Alright, <laugh>. Um, I would love to, uh, I would love for you to interview like Andrew Hem. I think he's just an incredible artist. I, I love his work. It's, uh, it's, uh, I think it's, it was hugely influential to me during college. Uh, I went to one of his shows and it just, it blew, it blew me away what he was able to do color-wise, movement-wise, uh, with the characters. And, uh, and I just haven't heard, I feel like I haven't heard much from him. Like, he seems like a kind of a quiet person. At least that's my, per my, uh, perception of him. So I just wanna know more about, you know, how does he, how does he achieve the look of his work? Uh, that would be awesome.

    michael (01:40:24):

    Awesome. Great choice. What about you, Trisha?

    Trisha (01:40:28):

    I'm actually blanking on his name right now. <laugh> <laugh>. So sorry, just, just for the sake of awkwardness, I think I'm gonna have to pass <laugh>. Sorry, I should have written it down. <laugh>, sorry.

    michael (01:40:40):

    Alright, no worries. Uh, Darren, Trisha, thank you guys so much for coming on and doing the show. This has been a real treat getting to know more about you. I really appreciate it.

    Darren (01:40:47):

    Yeah, thank you so much, Michael.

    Trisha (01:40:48):

    Yeah, thank you so much. It was a lot of fun chatting together and also hearing from Darren too. <laugh>

    Darren (01:40:54):

    <laugh>.

    michael (01:41:06):

    So that's it for this episode of Art Affairs. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Darren and Trisha. I really love the many different kinds of contrast that run throughout their work, from the highly rendered quality, juxtaposed with the simplistic features of their subjects, the surrounding darkness and grim atmosphere with the light of hope and childlike innocence. The modern street wear with the Victorian era clothing, it parallels the contrasts in their own personalities and creative voice, but also how complimentary they are to one another together, greater than the sum of their individual parts. It was really interesting to realize how so many of the different themes in their work tie back to this desire to communicate how, you know, universal, the human experience is whether it takes place now or 300 years ago. We all know what grief and hope feel like. And like Trisha said, everyone was a child wants.

    michael (01:42:06):

    These are shared experiences that we can all relate to, and it shows just how much more alike we are than we are different. And that on its own encourages people to, you know, lead with empathy and compassion. It sounds like they've been really busy lately. They have this brand new solo show coming up in a couple weeks in Hong Kong. The Seed of Peace will be at Woaw Gallery on April 6th and will feature as many as 20 pieces consisting of paintings and drawings. And of course, that one new character that may seem devious on the surface, but is kind of a little bit part of all of us really <laugh>. And then in May, they'll have even more work debuting at Ojiri Gallery in London. So be sure to follow their Instagram to stay up to date with all they have going on, or even better subscribe to the newsletter on their website and you'll be sure to get everything. So thanks again to Trisha and Darren for joining me today. And thank you for checking out the show. I'm truly grateful for your support. And just a reminder, one big way you could help out if you're really enjoying the show, would be to check out the show's Patreon. You could find all the details on patreon.com/artaffairs. And as always, you can contact me through my website at artaffairspodcast.com or on Instagram @artaffairspodcast. So until next time, be good to yourself and be good to each other.

Artistsmichael faithgiorgiko, painterComment